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Posted by wmmbb in Israel-Palestine.

At Bob Ellis’ Table Talk, commenters gather and give forth their opinions. Historian declared:

Of course there’s a need for war

To which I had a response.

The more fundamental question is: Does human conflict have to descend into a self-reinforcing cycle of violence and war. In this process the “other” is dehumanized. How can human beings be murdered on a large scale, apparently without remorse?

While conflict may be inevitable, we human beings can envisage the future, can see the consequences of our actions,control our amygdalas and avoid barbaric actions. This is the presumption and the expectation of a civilized society. The judgements of the courts are testimony.

Why should nations be different in principle? By refusing to talk to the Hamas leadership, Israel bears a heavy responsibility for the massacre. There was, I consider, a discernable tipping point when the military presumption prevailed over the political presumption. Mass murder is simply the logical extension of the violence of the Israeli occupation and dispossession of Palestine. Violence begets violence.

Far be from me to correct a historian, but the description is Anglo-Saxon as distinct from Angles and Saxons.

In New Zealand, the invading settlers took all the best land,the Treaty of Waitangi(1841) has contemporary currency. While not a paragon among nations – I understand there is 27% child poverty – it might be suggested that peace has been positively shaped and determined by peace. I would suggest that conflict between individuals can deepen friendship because of the wider context of recognition and acceptance of rights and culture.

A similar workable model could be developed for Israel-Palestine. The foundation, as David Grossman says (thanks David) requires the process of dialogue.

Similarly “jimhaz” stated:

I don’t see that this Israel-Palestinian conflict is any of our business, to be honest. Explain to me why it is.

Again I responded.

That is a fair question.

I will be interested in what others have to say.

By “our business”, I think what is meant what is of most concern to us. We are aware of others, particularly when they are suffering a brutal, heartless, inhuman massacre. Are other people just physical objects, or are they conscious beings? I believe the fair go extends to all.

Our consciousness might extend beyond the “optical illusion” of borders or tribal, cultural identifications. We live in such as an interconnected world that we are aware of this tragedy as it is happening. For example, I have a facebook friend who is a doctor has lost all her family from Israeli weapons. I have seen so of the dead, including the names of the children. Both Jews and Palestinians know this form of trauma passes from one generation to next.

At some point the violence has to stop. Does it continue as “structural violence” (Johan Galtung) to give way once again to direct violence, or is there a possibility of a mediated settlement that will hold and provide the fair go for all.

We can each of us now all our voices to the cause of humanity – despite the studied, negligent, ineptitude of our blind Government.

Let me know, if you disagree.

At least I can get the links to work here.

Noam Chomsky gives his judgement of Isreal’s war crimes. He is interviewed by Press TV. These are a good set of questions:

Part One:

Part Two:


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