FRIDAY NIGHT DOG BLOG – SPRING FLOWERS? September 13, 2008
Posted by wmmbb in DOG BLOG -.trackback
Sasha imitates a shrinking violet (but I like this photo):
Ah, then he smiles:
Dexter close up:
Flowers to the right of us. . .
It is the season for optimism Sasha:
We missed the midnight hour again, but we are setting off to join Friday Ark none the less because time and tide for wait for no man, but when you are a dog things are different.
This week the dog waged the tale and the selection of the video. Oorvi wanted to see some flowers, and Pete Seeger has the song:
Postscript:
Might one express a little humility, a trace of self doubt, as for example Abe Lincoln might have expressed, just to indicate the enormity of the responsibility involved, and not just for Americans let me emphasize? No, nothing of the sort. Here is person with no identifiable job description specific capabilities and accomplishments, but all the confidence that she is fit. Here are her actual words (via Juan Cole):
“I answered (McCain) ‘yes’ because I have the confidence in that readiness and knowing that you can’t blink, you have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission that we’re on, reform of this country and victory in the war, you can’t blink,” she said.
It’s all about the wiring you see. Why am I afraid? If a person does not have a habit of careful thought and is unable to make an honest self assessment, how can they identify good advice? Might not it be possible for patriotism to trump hubris. If not for Palin, then McCain, and if not McCain?
Dear Mr. wmmbb,
Thanks for the flower-pics:) I like the yellow flowers a lot. The pink ones are nice too. I can’t recognize any of those (the first pink seems to belong to the lily family though)
Cooper’s and Jock’s pictures are nice too. It’s good to know that Jock has survived his near-at-hand eviction and settled down:)
Sasha and Dexter are perfectly in command of the situation, as always! In fact I liked those on-the-road pictures and the hills in the background picture a lot!
Thanks for commenting on the Maslow’s hierarchy post…you are right about the human perception of dogs:) In fact, I’d like to say that most humans don’t even perceive dogs as beings with level 3 needs! I know a few people who don’t!
Thanks again for those pictures…I love flower pictures (you must’ve seen flowers in my header often – Mercury loves to photograph them and my header is probably her only showcase.) What you see now is called “Champa” in India. Champa is a flowering tree ( about 6 to 12 ft high) and we have five of them in our terrace garden:) It’s also called Plumeria or Frangipani.
Cameo is calling…See you later:)
Licks n Wags,
Oorvi
My best course is not to comment too much on flowers, but I am hoping I will have more and better photos for you.
Jock has not settled for his condition, but unfortunately unlike Cooper all he can do is bark. Like Dexter, Cooper will not be confined having the tenacity and strength to break free.
Agreed, while we set limits, we dog owners have to recognize the needs of dogs, if they are not to be miserable or unsatisfied. Every dog, or at least every breed, is different. There are species needs, but there a breed needs. Do I over generalize?
Thanks for the comment Oorvi and the mission.
Wonderful comments about humility and the awesome presidential responsibility. Ignorance is bliss.
I am increasingly appalled at this VP choice. This is yet another reason to question the judgment of McCain.
Thanks for the Lincoln sentiment–apropos indeed.
What a face Dexter’s got! And what a lovely coat and gorgeous eyes!
This is a nice article. Specially the pictures of dogs are good.
————–
marry
ahinfosource
Thank you for your comment Judith.
It will certainly be interesting to see how and whether the dynamics of the presidential election play out. The momentum seems to be running with the Republicans. Things can change and I expect them to.
We were noting when we were looking at his pictures how different Dexter’s expressions are, and how Sasha generally looks the same. Our dogs are vegetarians. We try to ensure that they get plenty of fat in their diet.
Thanks for the comment marry. I am pleased you liked the photos of the dogs.
Postscript:
Judith did you notice?
The NYT editorial, Gov Palin’s Worldview, seems to agree with the points we have been making. Not quite in the same terms, but perhaps more comprehensively.
Of course, it is not rocket science, and I have no doubt a view widely shared by Americans. I guess the way in which the electoral system works becomes the critical factor here, including what factors will encourage voter turnout in key swing states, and what factors can be used to suppress the vote. Hanging chads anyone? Butterfly ballots? Any other creative options on the menu which have the imprimatur of legality or legal plausibility?
I also watched the headbangers at Fox. I was left with headache. Who actually watches and listens to that stuff? There must be a demographic.
Yes, there is quite a demographic. I must admit to having more than a few Republican friends who listen to this stuff as I might C-Span or often times CNN. Theformer is a favorite.
Didn’t check out the Times article. But I will. I’m not sure about the tide towards the Palin/McCain ticket. My Republican brother reminds me that Palin has energized the base but not many outside of it. He also reminds me not to trust polls.
There were 12 of us, 10 remaining. Half are outspoken Democrats and the other are proud Republicans. (Most are, however, voting for Obama.) As you might imagine elections are very fun at our dinner with 10 very passionate outspoken siblings discussing hot topics from politics to religion. We get together at least once a week and have great fun! But we are quite serious about our politics too!
Another Republican brother reminds that people like he and I do not have home phones. (We have business phones in our homes.) Who’s polling the likes of us? Hmmm? If young people turn out like expected and if the disenfranchised actually turned out this election the Obama/Biden ticket will win “handily” as Bill Clinton perdicted.
Have you thought about whether the dogs will is being impossed by vegetarianism? I was a vegetarian for 12 years, met a guy who couldn’t live without meat. I was really grossed out at first, but over time I began eating meat again. I still have long periods of not eating meat. I rarely buy it, unless I’m cooking for my guy, a 6′ 4″
Irishman that gotta have the stuff.
What a piercing piece. It has made me quite sad, indeed. I have written these words in other words on my Blog. But what makes me so incredibly sad now, is that it appears that many of these people appear NOT to love their country. What a terribly sad thought.
Judith, on the question of polling and their significance you might want to check out Pollytics. Sure telephone polling has problems, but then there is fact to face polling. The underlying statistics is pretty subtle, and I don’t understand it to a sufficient degree, so it is good to have reference to experts.
My guess, putting aside whatever may be showing up now, and all that stuff about the political mind that George Lakoff writes about implying the effectiveness of the Republican publicity strategy, is that with a major housing crisis in particular, questions of economic policy are going to kick in big time. I doubt the line about taxes, with the wealth divide real and transparent, and the froth and bubble about earmarks is not going to cut the mustard. The management of the economy has got to be top of the mind for business people as for working people.
Palin is just great as a conservative cultural warrior, but she is hopeless on the economy. Ignorant and incompetent would not be too strong a description. Economic policy is not McCain’s strong suit by his own admission.The Democrats have at least got policies.
An interest in politics seems to me to derive from the family, the most important generational transmission institution, I would guess. With your family the dinner table conversation must be interesting. What is with the mavericks?
Circumstances and history, including institutional arrangements account for differences in political culture, I would suggest. To witness the Constitution being trashed is distressing for non-Americans as it must be for Americans.
In the absence of conflict, a principled vegetarianism (vegan) stance – ethical and environmental – is made easy. As you can see, the dogs do not lack for condition, and as for Dexter, i doubt that his diet has affected his temperament, although one can dream I suppose.
The dogs look great! I was wondering about consciousness and choice with my question and whether if left alone in the wilderness alone would one eat whatever one could, human or animal, for survival sake.
I am the youngest of 12 children born to an amazing mom and wonderful dad who had issueds and wasn’t present in the household. My mother lead with love and strenght. We are all entreprenuers and professionals who were trained to serve in ministry first. We are also all artist of some sort, singers, painters, writers, etc…
My mother was fiercely independent and one of the most brilliant, strong and loving person I’ve ever known. She was fierce, but never raised her voice. She stressed respect, but politely spoke her peace. She was only 5′ 3″. I’m 5′ 10″ and my tallest brother was 6′ 4″. Her small stature meant absolutely nothing.
She was strength and beauty and you responded in the affirmative eventually, even if not at any given moment. I undoubtedly was among my siblings who tested her the most; she smiled when I rebelled, remaining insistent on some things and couldn’t be budged on others. (We had to do ministry and serve.) She was a passionate Democrat who would be so proud of Barack. He would have been her 13th child.
Considering our current economic climate here being a cultural warrior is the very least of what we need without one who can bring the needed change or a the very least get us to think about where we now stand on a host of issues and where we are going. I sincerely believe that the hearts of the American people are right. As with anything, when people are fearful some decisions are not the most rational. I am hoping that fear will not get the best of us this time and that policy and ideas will.
God bless America and the people of the world.
Dogs are by nature scavengers, and hunters. They have an evolutionary role that is clearer to them than often our role might be to us. As the same time they have a long relationship with human beings, and to some extent their breeds represent human purposes. Some behavior is learnt, and I suppose there is the example of wild dogs.
There are I am sure dogs (perhaps Oorvi can confirm this) are more intuitive about their relationship with us than we are with them. As for human consciousness and dog awareness, those are issues perennially under review here, if not addressed always in an explicit way.
Your mother sounds like an extraordinary person. Not many people can say they raised as many children as Jesus had apostles, and to do so in a way that emphasized service to others at the same time developing their individual gifts sounds even more extraordinary to me.
My family was less formerly religious. We were post-deist or something, reflecting our social and cultural environment. I probably will make as many mistakes relating to religious references as I am inclined to do with botanical ones.
As for what governs a nation’s heart, I know only that if we are governed by fear, anger and hatred, the results are inevitably bad giving rise to further fear, anger and hatred. Violence begets violence. Hope for the best, and the better from ourselves, is not such a crazy purpose after all.
I found it very amazing that during the Tsunami very few animals died in comparision died as they headed to the hills weeks in advance. I wonder if as we have evolved if we lost something in our evolutionary process.
The funny things about dogs is that they are often very much like their owners. If you see a kid or a senior young at heart with a dog, the dog is spry and responsive no matter the age. If you see a senior walking a dog, the dog seems to respond and walk just as the senior does no matter the age. I have often asked owners the age of their dogs and have been suprised. I personally have never owned a dog as an adult, as I have travelled so much. But we always had dogs growing up. I was just thinking of getting one recently, as my traveling schedule has lessened. I love dogs.
My mother was indeed most extraordinay. Private, yet open. Brilliant, yet non-dismissive. Wordly, yet spiritual. Gentle, yet strong. She never berated us for mistakes. She was not terribly impressed with many people who called themselves Christians, though Christ was being preached and because of this she was glad.
For me, it is all about the principles of Christ. I am not terribly impressed with many who call themselves Chrisitians either. The condemnation of others, even other Chrisitians, is frightening. Christ NEVER condemnend others, save the religious folks. In fact, his fury was strictly reserved for the the loveless legalist hypocritical religious leaders of his day who sat in judgment of others. This should teach us something. But I have hope for humanity. Hope is good. But there is something greater: “And now abides faith, hope, love, these three: but the greatest of these is love.”
Thank you, wmmbb, for your words and continual search. It takes a brave heart to continue on a path in the face of judgment. I remember when I was in my early 20’s and I met an awesome slightly older Italian/Jewish atheist whom I fell hard for. When I told my mother about his lack of religious beliefs she was not altogether happy, though she never verbally expressed it. It was the slightest downcast of her fact that gave it away. But she remained opened. I was with this guy for 4 years. He remains a dear friend and my mother came to like him immensely. He remains an athesist. I remain a Christian. We can change no one. My belief is that God loves us both incredibly.
I should know better but I have taken the dogs out just before a thunder storm. Sasha looked at me as though I was crazy. Short story it was a very frightening experience. In future, I will listen for the birds and observe more carefully the behavior of the dogs.
The dogs do tie us down, but we are not intending to go anywhere, so that is not a big problem.
I like to think of dogs as psychological individuals, which reflects to Oorvi’s points in regard to the hierarchy of needs. As some point it seems to me that evolution and specifically the evolution of consciousness is drawn not driven. So what then are the “hidden attractors”?
St Augustine said: “Duas civitates duo focuint amores” (Two cities are created by two loves). I imagine some identify this attractive force with God, as Augustine did. I want to insist that we can understand these things, to the extent we are capable, with reason, evidence and scientific knowledge. At the same time, we then are engaged in understanding consciousness from the inside, quite a departure from the methods of objective study and measurement. Having reached that point of understanding, perhaps only confusion beckons for me beyond it.
I too have have respect for those Christians who are followers of Jesus of Nazareth, because I think he is a cool guy. He could have said hate the Romans invaders, but he said love your enemies. He insisted on the assertion of human dignity in the face of oppression, by turning the other check, by walking the extra mile, or when they demand your shirt, give them your socks too. That is about the sum of my knowledge. I am inclined to think these statements are authentic because they are memorable.
He is a paragon of nonviolence. Jesus assumes the role of the victim, and in so doing turns the cycle of scapegoating back on itself. He takes on the role of the nonviolent actor who engages our compassion, which, I suggest, is at the distinctive expression of humanness while it connects us to nature. I am not claiming any special virtue, just suggesting where human values might be found, if we looked.
There are some beautiful sentiments here. Thank you much.
If you hadn’t read The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, I’d reccommend it. There is a knowledge beyond science. There is a knowing beyond present understanding.
Thank you Judith,
I have heard of the book, but not read it, so I will take your advice.
My relatives in Western Australia were in the habit of describing their State symbol as a “little black duck”. You see in my mind, black swans are not all that exceptional.
Let me then, make the necessary mental adjustment, and re-title it in my mind at least as, “The Black Cockatoo”. White cockies are pretty common around here, and I hope to get some photos, which is probably harder than it sounds, so I am making no promises.
Bravo, wmmbb! LOL!
I think it was believed by the Western World that all swans were white until black swans were discovered in the mid 1800’s in Australia. So, I can see why the reference had little significance for you
I have got it now Judith. We are talking the Scottish Enlightenment, David Hume and the problem of induction. People in Europe and North America then would not have seen black swans. It occurs to me I have seen more black swans than white swans.
Hume is a great favorite of mine. I began reading his work as a teenager and was just so impressed then with his keen observations beyond perceived knowledge. I viscerally understood this then.
You are right to associate the Problem of Induction with the thesis of the The Black Swan, along with its impact for both good and bad, Taleb tells a story in that you might enjoy.
“He (Hume) once fell into a swamp near the house he was building in Edinburgh. Owing to his reputation among the locals as an atheist, a woman refused to pull him out of it until he recited the Lord’s Prayer and the Belief, which being pratical-minded, he did. But not before he argued with her about whether Chrisitians were obligated to help their enemies. Hume looked unprepossessing. ‘He exhibited the preoccupied stare of the thoughtful scholar that so commonly impresses the undiscerning as imbecile.’”
Wow…now my canine senses are muddled and befuddled! But what remains crystal clear is that each one of us (dogs) has a special and individual way of responding to the environment and its elements, including those of the human kind!
Our needs, as Mr. wmmbb pointed out, continue to move up the needs hierarchy – I remember that as a street dog, I’d eat anything…and I mean anything – dried up bread crumbs too! But now, I even turn my nose up at roasted chicken (I did that yesterday). Earlier I could sleep on the walkway, now I need a comfortable bed…and what’s worse (according to you-know-who) is that I’ve become used to what they call Air-conditioning!
But the whole thing about reflecting the human friend’s demeanor (I prefer not to use the term owner, as it’s a bit derogatory to us dogs) is something that I am not sure of! You must’ve seen us pulling and thus directing the human where we’d like to be (say, when we want to sniff out the peemails left by other dogs) and doing things that many humans would rather not do!
Just sharing some thoughts…human philosophy and reasoning isn’t my core competence, you see:)
Licks n Wags to Mr. wmmbb and Wags to Ms. Ellis!
Thanks for your comment Oorvi.
I am sure what you say is true. Every dog is and understand themselves an individual and has needs, whose satisfactions leads to higher order needs. We are alike, except we humans may forget the benefits we derive. Sasha and Dexter make sure that I get some exercise.
As a matter of general philosophy I try not to let my core incompetencies from doing things, because it is by doing things that you learn stuff.
Thanks for the story Judith.
I suspect as soon as people spoke to Hume they would be disabused of any notion that he was an imbecile.
Wmmbb – It is, in fact, those who seek to impose their narrow beliefs or any belief on that may be preceived as imbeciles. It’s funny the lense through which we look. We often try to take the beam out of someone else’s eye when the there is a plank in our own. Vision is impeded and love lost.
Oorvi – Thanks for your words. Lovely. I wonder, however, with your consciousness does it enable you to not only respond instintively but to create actually? For example, what contributions have you made to the universe beside your awesome role as compassionate friend and protector. These may be enough indeed.
But as far as one with consciousness, one who thinks and responds, what have your thinking lead to that would actually (as in actions)make a difference in the world, besides as I’ve said your historical role as compassionate friend and protector? If you’re wondering what have humans done for dogs, aside from the love we show in our care of you, and I pray not the abuse, though I’m fully aware of this, I’m not sure. Maybe or love and care are indeed enough too.
Watched a lovely movie yesterday, Running Free, about a horse named Lucky who spoke with human consciousness. Funny thing…the other horses if I’m remembering correctly never spoke, like the parents in the Charlie Brown movies. Have you noticed that only the kids speak in these movies? Parents never speak.
As a child I understood the parents’ language but only through the response of Charlie Brown. The parents said only “Wa Wa Wa Wa” with greater or lesser verocity. But they never spoke with human words. But lucky, being a horse, spoke verbal language humans understand. The reality, however, is Lucky was more like the parents of Charlie Brown, and not Charlie Brown himself, whose response or understanding is based on our actions with greater or lesser verocity. Lucky’s speech, in essence, betrayed conscious reality, even though I was thoroughly engaged in the movie, totally loving Lucky.
But because we are not horses (dogs, etc.) their voices can only be ours. We can, however, learn from them and their languge, but then it would be among the pack of wolves in the mountains that we would undoubtedly have to observe from afar. We breed and train dogs in order for them to live peaceably among us as friends, otherwise there would be a distancing for sure. What do you think? I hope I have said something worth considering.
Very interesting observations there Judith. I will the answer the answer open to Oorvi, and I hope you have checked out her blog.
By the way, Oorvi, let me thank you for the mission you set me with respect to the flowers. As it warms up and Spring takes hold there should be more. If for any reason, I can see any I will send out an APB for help. South West Australia has distinctive wild flowers, but otherwise the distinction might be between topical, desert and seaboard, but here again my lack of knowledge is in play. I am continuing on the mission.
While I was out today, I met a person, while holding Sasha and Dexter, who mentioned that snakes will be soon out and about, so may be I might be able to get some photos. From time to time, I see an odd bush Wallaby – but I am never ready.
Nice, wmmbb, about your travels and flower exploration. Watch out for the snakes. Sasha and Dexter will probably take notice before you.
I do welcome further discussion, Oorvi. Did I say thank you for the wag?
Look at me here…discussing cross-species issues of such magnitude with two human intellectuals! OMD! I don’t believe this!
So, let’s see.
Humans train us…?!
I guess there’s a slight misunderstanding there. Here’s the canine perspective on things as they stand!
A long time ago, some wolves met the humans. Now a smart canine can sniff out a worthy opponent so these wolves decided to observe their new opponents, the humans, to understand their ways! They realized that humans considered themselves superior to all the other species and that whenever humans looked at another species, they asked themselves the question – “How can I profit from it?” Now, this led to the domestication of the horse, the cow, the goat, the hens, the pig…and many others! These animals were, in canine-speak, enslaved!
The wolves however, were smarter. They knew that their sense of smell and sound was far superior to that of the humans; and that they could see better in the dark; and also that they were physically more powerful than humans! So they had a lot they could barter with the humans, who had a superior brain, but who were inferior to dogs in many other respects. Thus, a meeting was organized and the humans met the wolves to sign a treaty.
According to that treaty, the humans were required to transfer the know-how of human etiquettes to wolves. It was also decided that humans would treat their canine companions with love and respect. On the other hand, the wolves promised to take care of the human families and use their superior senses and responses to protect their humans.
So you see, the smart wolves became the dogs of today…the friends of humans! Now some humans may feel superior to us, but most know that we learn because we want to learn, and because once upon a time we made a promise…we promised to be friends with humans. Friends are equals! The humans, who realize this try to learn from us; they learn to read our expressions, understand our barks, and do things for us. One might say that we, the dogs train them to do so; but you’ll never find a dog saying that.
We remember our pact.
(I am sure you’d be interested in knowing the details of how it all happened…Read the complete story at
http://oorvi.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/wolves-dogs-and-humans-swot-analysis/
About the flowers:
Mr. Wmmbb,
ThanksJ I don’t know if I can really set a task for you…it’s truly magnanimous of you to say so. I think Ms. Ellis is right in saying that Sasha and Dexter would help you find the snake. I hope these snakes are not poisonous. Mercury’s spent about 15 years in the North East of India, and she’s seen a lot of snakes! Weird things…they move without legs…I wonder how humans maintain their balance on their two feet…snakes are weirder still…no legs!!
Licks and Wags,
Oorvi
Oorvi,
Firstly, my apologies for not getting to respond sooner. I had my latest FNDB to get done, and to respond to other commentators.
I really like your story of the development of the relationship between dogs and humans, and as you say there is a dog side to that story as well. It is not all one way. The reciprocity is the key to the success I think combined with the range of behaviors of the two different species.
That was a great task to have set me Oorvi, and I think there is reason to suppose that it might have improved the product, as you might say with your marketing hat on. My readers, to the extent I have any, are my customers in a sense. I have to think of other things that people might be interested in, and that would be relatively easy for me to photograph.
Our snakes, much like yours, tend to be venomous to extremely poisonous, and good practice on our part, and on theirs, is to avoid contact, which is mostly what happens in practice. Sasha and Dexter probably do not know much about the nature of snakes, and may seek a closer acquaintance. Here again, this is not a good idea.
Oh, I have just noticed your SWOT analysis.
Hi Mr. wmmbb,
FNDB?! Is it the same as a ToDo?
You are absolutely right about reciprocity being the key to success:) The flowers are great…I am going back to the new post for another look.
Licks n Wags,
Oorvi
Sorta Oorvi,
FNDB= Friday Night project to do, or something.